Home › Forums › Self Defense Current Events and Culture › Martial arts are not useless and have their place…but not necessary for learning the “skill” of self defense.
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James Goolsby.
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January 3, 2014 at 5:52 pm #10744
Dallas Williams
ParticipantThe biggest problem with martial arts many times isn’t so much the techniques but the mindset and training and application of those techniques. It is true WW2 combatives and in effect the SDTS borrows most everything we do, the best and most battle proven and effective techniques from various systems of martial arts various styles of kung fu, savate, jujutsu, judo, wrestling, boxing, etc. The problem is modern martial arts classes along with the good shit, also teach you a lot of bogus nonsense complicated techniques that only work in the dojo with rules and regulations in place that allow you to pull off the technique on your attacker because they’re letting you, and specific defenses for specific attacks that even if you can make them work in real life they require so much time and months or years of training to master and so easy to screw up or forget under stress that it’s just not worth it. So basically you’re paying this outrageous monthly fee however much it is and if you’re primary goal for taking martial arts classes is to learn self defense for the most part you’re wasting your time and money instead of just signing up for the SDTS and paying 20 dollars or so a month with the same live support you would get from your fat ass martial art dojo instructor lol, and all you’re learning is basic and simple yet effective tactics that work naturally with your body’s automated response to danger and stimuli that will actually work and save your ass in a real life or death struggle, no extra filler or bullshit.
Even though mma training and competing in those fights the mindset and training approach are more applicable to real life than traditional martial arts, there are still many holes in mma training that aren’t addressed that the SDTS does. First of all because of safety reasons, certain techniques that the SDTS is based upon like biting, eye gouging, stomps to a downed opponent, edge of hand strikes to the neck or throat, or knees or kicks to the groin that are dirty and downright dangerous but are guaranteed fight and danger enders when it is required in self defense. And in mma taking a fight to the ground and grappling is encouraged when as SDTS students we know outside the ring this is a very dangerous and risky practice because you’re on a hard and likely hazardous surface like gravel, rocks, broken glass, not to mention your attacker very well will have friends standing there waiting to stomp your head in if you’re able to get the best of their buddy. We want our opponent to be on the ground with us kicking or stomping him, not the other way around. In mma you don’t have to worry about and in effect don’t train for weapons defensively or offensively when in the SDTS this is the very basis of our training because such is life, our attackers won’t play fairly so neither should we but do whatever it takes to guarantee we have the advantage right out of the gate. Not to mention in mma you’re trained to stop striking when a ref jumps in and stops you or you’re trained to end a choke or other submission technique when your opponent taps, and this has been to the detriment of many a mma fighter when they’re confronted outside the ring. You will fight how you’ve trained and even though you think you won’t, if you’ve been trained to stop fighting when the round is over or stop a submission once there is a tap then all your attacker has to do is play into this and tap out and as soon as you have your back turned to him ready to walk away he will be ready to stick a knife in it. In the SDTS we train to keep fighting until our attacker is either rendered helpless, unconscious, or dead and no less in other words no longer a viable threat.
A friend of mine now in his 50s who grew up in New Mexico on a Native American reservation where there were high rates of poverty and crime and alcohol and drug use. He said from the time he was small child he had to fight many times, even sometimes as a youth against grown men, just to survive until he left home at 18 going to college. He never took any kind of traditional martial arts training but his father who was a WW2 army veteran taught him the combatives he learned there and he said he would never have survived to adulthood had his father not taught him how to fight to survive and that he wouldn’t trade anything for this invaluable skill that he was instilled with from early childhood onward. He thought his need for this training might not ever be needed again until a couple of years ago when he was threatened by a coworker with a knife in the aluminum factory he was working at. When the man attempted to lunge at him he was able to take him down with a hand yoke shot to the throat leaving him gagging and gasping for air on the ground with the police coming minutes later to haul him off.
The point is if you wanna learn pure self defense this invaluable skill and nothing else the SDTS which is streamlined and simplified WW2 combatives by Damian Ross is where it’s at. Martial arts has it’s place and is great to take up as a fun hobby to get in some extra physical activity, you enjoy the philosophical or historical aspect behind the martial art you’re studying, or if you simply want something extra to supplement what you already know and have trained with the SDTS then there is nothing wrong with taking a class and I know Damian wouldn’t trade his martial arts background for anything, but if you’re simply wanting to learn basic self defense and nothing more it’s not necessary and depending on what style you’re studying or instructor you have possibly even counterproductive. -
January 3, 2014 at 9:42 pm #13403
James Goolsby
ParticipantAmen, brother!
It’s SDTS for me all the way. In fact, the ONLY reason I even still train in anything like aikido/jujitsu is because, as a police officer, I am often required by my department to show that I at least attempted to “subdue and control” an individual before I commence to hacking and chopping (unless, of course, the fight is already on… then all bets are off!) Even then, though, I often find myself resorting to GDT and SDTS many times — for example, the ol’ Hand Yoke to the back of the neck tends to get their attention quickly.
Great post. Stay safe, my friend.
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January 5, 2014 at 11:56 am #13406
Damian (Instructor)
KeymasterGreat post Dallas! I gotta agree a lot of people take martial arts for self defense and not realize under stress your not gonna remember how to do it. Prime example bck in 2006 I was in a bar fight. I was djing and after a bar contest one of the partisipants lost and was mad at me for calling it. He decided to jump into the booth and slam me into a corner using a collar grab and his weight to hold me. At first I tried a fancy wrist lock… It didn’t work, he was determined and about 20 lbs heavier than me. Next he started the wild swings I’m just Lucky he was drunk and he only landed one shot which knocked my glasse off. So all I really could do was a punch stop to his shoulder then I punched him in the nose. At that time the manager and bouncer and a cop showed up to take both of us to jail. I survived with only a bump he walked away with a dislocated shoulder and a broken nose. Just goes to show things happen quickly and those fancy twisty wrist locks do not work under real conditions. Oh also I was found not guilty due to self defense in court however one of the officers who arrested us said I went a bit excessive on him my reply was he knocked off my glasses so I couldn’t see and my life was being threatened. the judge wound up being understanding of the situation and the other guy was the one with the fines and comunity service hehe.
Any way back to the point martial arts are good for the mind and body but not for self defense unless you break down the moves into something simple. -
January 7, 2014 at 10:01 am #13426
Damian (Instructor)
Keymaster@Archie said: he only landed one shot which knocked my glasses off
It just goes to show you, NEVER hit a guy in glasses.
BTW Dallas, this would be a great blog post.
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January 8, 2014 at 10:16 pm #13450
J R
Member@James Goolsby said:
Amen, brother!
It’s SDTS for me all the way. In fact, the ONLY reason I even still train in anything like aikido/jujitsu is because, as a police officer, I am often required by my department to show that I at least attempted to “subdue and control” an individual before I commence to hacking and chopping (unless, of course, the fight is already on… then all bets are off!) Even then, though, I often find myself resorting to GDT and SDTS many times — for example, the ol’ Hand Yoke to the back of the neck tends to get their attention quickly.
Great post. Stay safe, my friend.James, I feel you brother. I am a police officer too and the Guardian Program has worked. My department does not approve of the control techniques in there but, I have used a few and they have worked great. Especially the hand yoke ot the back of the neck! I used that once when we had this big fight we were breaking up and the biggest mouth in the group wasn’t fighting anybody anymore but he was instigating others. I gave him the hand yoke to the back of the neck, that shut him up quick and to the crowd it looked like I was just taking him into custody and not trying to fight. I did the hand yoke during an almost riot too and it shut somebody down real quick too. Also, the bulldog neck twist worked real good too on a domestic with a guy trying to fight me. I got him down quick and without incident.
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January 10, 2014 at 8:29 am #13463
James Goolsby
Participant@J R said:
@James Goolsby said:
Amen, brother!
It’s SDTS for me all the way. In fact, the ONLY reason I even still train in anything like aikido/jujitsu is because, as a police officer, I am often required by my department to show that I at least attempted to “subdue and control” an individual before I commence to hacking and chopping (unless, of course, the fight is already on… then all bets are off!) Even then, though, I often find myself resorting to GDT and SDTS many times — for example, the ol’ Hand Yoke to the back of the neck tends to get their attention quickly.
Great post. Stay safe, my friend.James, I feel you brother. I am a police officer too and the Guardian Program has worked. My department does not approve of the control techniques in there but, I have used a few and they have worked great. Especially the hand yoke ot the back of the neck! I used that once when we had this big fight we were breaking up and the biggest mouth in the group wasn’t fighting anybody anymore but he was instigating others. I gave him the hand yoke to the back of the neck, that shut him up quick and to the crowd it looked like I was just taking him into custody and not trying to fight. I did the hand yoke during an almost riot too and it shut somebody down real quick too. Also, the bulldog neck twist worked real good too on a domestic with a guy trying to fight me. I got him down quick and without incident.
JR,
Yup… the hand yoke has pretty much become my “go to” move these days. I’ve yet to have it fail on me. I nailed a drunk with it one day when he kept putting his hands in his pockets. His eyes rolled back and I’m pretty sure that for about 10 seconds or so he was talking to dead relatives.
I know what you mean about GDT, though. My LT about shit his pants when I showed him the pen-up-the-nostril technique. My department is so afraid of getting sued that anything beyond verbal judo and they start to break out in hives. We have to fill out a Use-of-Force report for practically everything. I now keep the “good stuff” to myself, which is sad considering I’m the department’s DT Instructor. Oh, well… Chief signs the checks so I gotta give him what he wants.
BTW… the hockey hip-check from behind is quite effective as well. Nobody expects you to slam your hip into their ass so it’s pretty easy to catch them off-guard. Course, the butt of a Glock or an ASP digging in there is a little added bonus.
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