January 7, 2010 at 2:32 pm #10405AnonymousInactive
I’ve received a few questions about my opinion the of this system. Well, all I can offer is what I have seen and to tell the truth…it sucks.
First, please take away the Mother Russia Marketing: The Spetsnaz (Russian Special Forces) Training, the Cammies, the para-military look of the people practicing it. Strip away all of that crap and instead imagine if they were wearing karate uniforms and called the system Russian Karate.
To prove my point, lets go to the video tape…
Now if you’re the type of guy who thinks Akido sucks, but systema is great, you’re an asshole. In fact, systema is actually BAD akido. This video is rife with BULLSHIT! From the tap knock outs to the two finger push downs. Hey, no one loves fat guy martial arts as much as me. There’s nothing cooler than a short, chubby Judoka tossing around guys who look like they live in the gym, but the tap knock outs only work because their training partners are great actors.
Tell me, what’s the difference between the Systema shit and this guy:
Or eould you rather look like Steven Seagal back in the day?
I put it to you, what’s the damn difference? NOTHING. If you want to wrap your self in the Hammer an Sickle and hide behind over hyped crap, knock yourself out—but don’t be fooled. 90 percent of Systema is useless. I only say 90 percent because I have not seen everything. I’m sure there is some one out there who knows a guy who does the REAL Systema. There is always “some guy”. These videos (and you can look at all of them) are all the same.
Don’t believe the hype, this is bad martial arts propped up by manufactured history. Use your common sense. There is only one major system the Russian military used to train troops across the board…Sambo and that comes directly from JUDO. Yes they modified it and developed it to suit their needs and create their identity but ask yourself, if Systema was all that, how come we didn’t hear about it until the 90’s?
Oh that’s right it was secret! Secret until someone decided to take something to market.
BTW, this is the SAME deal with Krav Maga….
Sysema by any other name will still stink.
January 8, 2010 at 10:35 pm #11606
OK, well I know what you mean about the systema being practiced, trained and worst yet..taught by Vladimir Vaseliev in Canada AND on the TRS videos. I agree most of that stuff is indeed not very useful for street slef defense and anyone who thinks that it is is making a big mistake.
On the other hand, I HAVE seen it (hm-maybe not “it”, rather maybe A guy who knows some “”Russian fighting””) demonstrated. Basically he performed like a really bad-ass tough street fighter who knew a FEW nasty ways of taking a guy’s balance. Then again this fellow was pretty handy with Sambo as well.
But you know Damian? And I get that at this point I sound like the guy in all the forums who says “WEELL…I saw this guy when I was…” but, I was in Israel years ago. I was on a Kibbutz, a people’s farm blah blah. Well I did not remain there for long I kind of got into a fight lol. BUT, there were soldiers staying there because Israel’s soldiers are ALWAYS allowed to stay on a Kibbutz for however long they need to.
One morning I had not a lot to do just yet, these soldiers were at this somewhat secluded courtyard with quite a bit of room to train in. They were actually very nice and freindly. They let me participate mostly because they were uneven in the class and a few soldiers needed a partner. It was really cool! But, yes they WERE doing Krav Maga. The stuff that Imi taught. Mmmm…..LET’S just say that it AIN’T the same as what is being taught here in the U.S. the stuff that passes for K.M.
First, I got slammed. Second, I got them a bit antsy at me when I held back and DID’NT slam them! Third, well it did….NOT….look……like kickboxing………at all. Not cardio, not muay thai….not any of that. It was brutal, to the point, it was meant to put the hurt on someone and I have no doubt these soldiers could do it. AND, it was not all together unlike Fairbairn/Sykes/Applegate stuff. Was the training approach as solid as the SDTS? No, not really. Then again, didn’t need to be AS MUCH because these soldiers would use it when they REALLY needed to. When they got TOO close to their enemy …when shit went “wrong”. LOL ya know here in L.A. the K.M. school makes their students wear this cute outfit of olive drab workout pants and the K.M. t-shirt? LOL in Israel the soldiers train wearing what they would in combat…their frikken GEAR! Boots, the fatigues, all of it.
LOL well they had hard and nasty palm slams, rips and tears, kneecap-breaking kicks..etc. No cardio-kickboxing stance, no stance at all. They just moved in and inflicted damage. It was just for a day and then I never saw those men again. Fun. My point is I think it is when this stuff comes to the U.S. to be marketed it ALWAYS gets watered down. Hey Damian don’t get me wrong I agree..I think Systema IS a very poor system, and so is AMERICAN K.M. It’s just when you said “there is always some guy” well…yeah there is. And mostly that guy would look at what’s being taught AS the original system and say “Are you f’***ing kidding me?”
Then again, if the real Israeli stuff was taught as it is in Israel, most people in the U.S. would run away .
January 8, 2010 at 10:38 pm #11607
LOL you know Damian, you had said that Sambo comes from Judo. And so does BJJ. And yet I have seen in forums BJJ and Sambo practionors argue and bicker about which is better/worse. And they both come from the same place .
January 9, 2010 at 1:15 pm #11613
Judo is the redheaded step child of the martial arts.
In the early 1900’s Japan sent emissaries throughout the world for the purpose of spreading Japan’s nationalism. (This is the same tactics we use with Christian Ministries and MCDonald’s).
“The task of developing new standard close combat system that could be taught to the new army fell to Vasili Oschepkov and Victor Spiridonov. Oschepkov was an experiences martial artist who had trained at the Kodokan in Japan. He even earned his second degree black belt from Judo’s founder Kano Jigoro. During WWI he taught soldiers combat Judo and Karate. Spiridonov was a combat veteran who had served in both the Russo-Japanese war and WWI. He had plenty of practical experience when it came to martial arts. He saw first hand how the Japanese applied the martial arts principals of constant attack and always taking ground in actual warfare and the importance of martial arts in developing a combat mindset. In addition, both men had studied boxing, Greco-Roman wrestling and many other fighting styles. “
The whole article is here:
https://myselfdefenseresource.com/russia … rtain.html
The Gracies or the people who promote BJJ, did a little bit of revisionist History here. The Japanese NEVER sent jujutsu practitioners anywhere. During the time of Westernizing Japan, Jujutsu was not looked on favorably, however, the new Judo was going to introduced Japan’s bushido spirit to the world.
Maeda was a JUDO man.
BJJ article here: https://myselfdefenseresource.com/brazil … -arts.html
In the book MY JUDO by Kimura he refers to Helio Gracie as a Sixth Dan (Degree) Black belt in…..JUDO.
The quote is here: One day, Helio Gracie, judo 6th dan, issued a challenge to us.
The link is here: https://judoinfo.com/kimura4.htm First line paragraph 14.
There is no doubt the BJJ differs in purpose and scope from Judo. But there is no doubt that BJJ comes from JUDO.
From a marketing stand point, there was really no other way for BJJ to go. The primary techniques are the same. In BJJ infancy if they called it Gracie JUDO (By the was Braziilan Judo is AWESOME and in the 90’s those guys were like “Gracie who?”).
If they called is Gracie Judo people would have just looked up their local judo club abd went there. when they call it Gracie Jujitsu or BJJ, now it’s unique and differs COMPLETELY from what is passed off as Jujutsu in America at the time.
January 11, 2010 at 10:53 pm #11619
No need for years of martial arts and shit. Just believe what Damian says and you’ll be good…I do! Well said Damian. Im glad I never knew shit about Sambo because I just learned the real shit here
January 11, 2010 at 10:53 pm #11620
I meant Systema
January 11, 2010 at 11:04 pm #11621
Pfft lol I watched a minute and seven seconds of the systema video and that shit was hella horrible. Systema is a scam to target westerners, I hope russians don’t actually train in this shit.
January 11, 2010 at 11:17 pm #11622
You know Machine from what the Russian guy showed me …I really doubt it.
January 11, 2010 at 11:19 pm #11623
What I mean is I have seen a bit of Vladimir’s stuff….but mostly Scott Sonnon and his R.O.S.S. system.
Sonnon’s stuff WILL NOT WORK against a bigger, stronger attacker.
January 12, 2010 at 12:24 am #11624
Believe it or not I took a ROSS seminar. A few of us back in 2002 took a ride out to Lancaster, PA to take knife and bayonet fighting course with those guys.
Personally, they were extremely respectful and didn’t have attitude. As far as the training…at least I picked up some Apple Butter (the Amish make that stuff).
The course focused on “joint recruitment”. Which means the more joints you use, the more power you can produce because your incorporating more muscle groups and body weight. Makes sense, I think I learned that in every sport I ever played, but it was never phrased like that.
Now here comes the goofy part. In order to “train” our bodies to recruit more joints was part yoga, part break dancing. There we were holding these knives in the middle of this field trying to “move around the weapon”. Scott told me I was doing it well, I still don’t know WTF I was doing.
At the end of the day we wasted several hours in something that could have been solved in a few minutes.
If you want “joint recruitment” HIT HARDER! Pavel puts it best in Power to the People. “The heavier the weight, the more muscles you need to recruit. It takes more and larger muscle groups to push a 45 pound plate than it does and empty soda can.”
I guess they used the term joint recruitment instead of muscle recruitment since Pavel was their competition. He has kettle bells, they have the Bowling Pins?
As far as self defense, I have not seen anything from that camp ever worth incorporating. You’re better off getting a makiwara and just punching the crap out of it.
January 12, 2010 at 1:02 am #11625
Still does’nt sound as bad as Dillman.
January 12, 2010 at 1:12 am #11626JKDGuy wrote:You know Machine from what the Russian guy showed me …I really doubt it.[/quote:1yk2hxae]
Where did I come into this conversation?
January 12, 2010 at 1:27 am #11627
thanks for the tip damian
January 12, 2010 at 1:41 am #11628
LOL I’m sorry I meant Human Weapon…I guess I had said your name because I was thinking of something you said in another post.
January 12, 2010 at 4:45 am #11629
It’s cool, it made me read the whole thread again before I figured it out.
January 12, 2010 at 5:47 am #11630
Thing is, you and I had a discussion about ammino supplements. That made me look at the obvious fact that most people follow the latest fads. whether they are effective or not.
Same in self-defense, that whole joint recruitment thing was something I have seen a lot of SD groups push on clients. Thankfully though, fads like that go as quickly as they come on these scene.
What I love about the SDTS is it just stays with the same stuff that has worked not just in WWII, but since violence first started if you think about it.
BTW, one “fad” that never went out of style and I think is fucking poisonous to effective self-defense, are JKDers who won’t let go of “well this way is the same way Bruce did it…” lol I know I know…my name has JKD in it. Still, people can’t get that Bruce did NOT have all the peices to the puzzle!
January 12, 2010 at 5:48 am #11631
Also it astounds me that these grown adult men still can’t grasp that…it WORKED FOR BRUCE!! He was a gifted athlete!! Does’nt mean it’s gonna work for you.
January 12, 2010 at 6:07 am #11632
I JUST watched a bit of Vladimir Vaseliev’s stuff on Youtube. This was dealing with a guy with a knife using Systema. Yeah HumanWeapon, stuff is pure shite. You know that’s another idea that’s dead; “Well you have to be ‘;relaxed’ in order for it to work”. I know of a few guys here in L.A. who teach “combat Tai Chi” and claim they can take knives away from people.
You know, while I agree that in training you should be relaxed in a mental way, rather than just lose control what I like about what Damian teaches is that it’s all compatible with how you’re REALLY gonna feel when some f****er is gunning for your ass. You’re gonna feel adreneline. Badly. You want a system that goes along with that and just allows you to hit ,kick and stomp em hard.
January 12, 2010 at 2:55 pm #11633JKDGuy wrote:Still does’nt sound as bad as Dillman.[/quote:17q6m1g3]
Maybe, but as soon as you start knocking guys out with you’re fingers…I have to call bullshit.
Oh, you can take guy’s out with one finger. It’s true. When your finger is squeezing the trigger of a firearm, it’s no problem.
January 12, 2010 at 3:19 pm #11634
And you know what I love about the firearms community Dam?
The fact that the gun is so boldly obvious about what it’s function is, all practice and application and NO theory…leaves little room for bullshit.
If some guy has a gun technique whose effectiveness is questionable, you’re gonna find about it really quickly at the range and simulated gun battles.
I think of the SDTS as hand to hand combat as seen through the eyes of a shooter.
“So, howdya know that move works?”
“That guy behind me back there? He’s dead.”
January 13, 2010 at 6:58 pm #11636
If you train the tiger claw a 1000x a day, condition your hands, then a straight tiger claw blast tot he face can seriously fuck up someones eyes, not to mention the head being driven back from the force. Just a thought. Or a thumb spear. With the thumb resting on top of the fist, obviously you’d have to be pretty damn close
May 1, 2010 at 2:03 am #12061
Has anyone actually viewed and [i:k3qiv5fu]practiced[/i:k3qiv5fu] anything from Systema and found it lacking? Please explain why it is useless and incompatible with/inferior to SDTS. Is it really all marketing? Why does it look sensible?
May 3, 2010 at 12:02 pm #12067
I spent some time with a group in Pennsylvania ironically enough it was the ROSS System.
The concepts were complicated and based on ideas of maximizing power through joint recruitment.
The methods were specific defense oriented and reminded me of Aikido more than anything else.
Now since there are about hundreds of varieties of systema, I can’t say where these guys fall into place.
But, looking at the videos at the beginning of this thread seems like if these people were in karate gis and not cammies, they would not get any attention.
Knocking someone out with a finger only happens when that finger’s on a trigger.
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