It’s not the movies…. people don’t just fall down when they get shot and they sure as heck don’t stop fighting.

There are NO guarantees in any of this (self defense) stuff, so you better have a back up plan.

This video has been going around,  it’s a mother and daughter rightfully defending their store, property and lives.

They shoot the subject at least 5 times and he still keeps coming.

I would say that these women’s effort to defend themselves was a complete success. The only way I judge success in self defense is survival. It doesn’t have to be pretty, it just has to work. So kudos to them.

I’m not going to get caught up in the “what ifs”. I think what if’s are bullshit. I only want to focus on what happened and the effectiveness of the firearm versus popular perception. 

A quick rundown of what I see in the video…

2 shots fired at point blank range at 0:34 (hit)

1 shot fired at 0:35 (possible miss)

1 shot 0:38 (possible miss)

1 shot point blank range at 0:58 (hit)

1 shot from daughter at 1:14 (hit)

Now subject is fighting with mom over gun – daughter does not have a clear shot.

1 shot at 1:28 (hit)

Now subject is trying to shoot daughter with mom’s gun which appears to be empty.

Women escape. 

Now for your reality check. 

  • Subject is shot at least 5 times.
  • Subject is not dead (or even down) though he definitely slowed a bit.
  • Subject manages to fight back.
  • Subject took the gun away from the mother.

What you should take away from this…

  • The gun didn’t magically end the attack.
  • 5 shots didn’t stop the attacker.
  • The women STILL had to engage in other means of self defense.
  • The use of the gun was RESTRICTED when a clear shot didn’t present itself.

A gun is a very useful self defense tool, but it is just a tool and not the be all, end all method of self defense you have been lead to believe.

As I said before, I think this was a success but you need to understand the limitations and accept the fact that you still need to add other means of self defense to your toolbox.

Comments always appreciated.

About the author.

Damian Ross is a self defense advocate and 2nd amendment supporter. He is the developer of The Self Defense Training System, Bodyguard Ballistic Protection Gear and the Switchblade Bulletproof Backpack. He’s currently the founder and CEO of The Self Defense Company.

 

  1. Nathan 1 year ago

    Shot placement makes a big game changer as well! If she would have shot him in the head,game changer!

  2. Author
    Damian 1 year ago
    Member Since: 10/10/18

    Thanks for posting Nathan, that’s kind of a “what if” comment.

    Look, under stress of a real attack, it’s most likely you will aim and got the body.

    People get shot in the body a lot more than they do in the head.

    The main reason is what happens to you when your SNS kicks in. Even adjusting your aim and trying to focus on the head is damn near impossible.

    You’re not going to be able to take aim.. NO WAY. Not at close range in a real fight.

    This is why you train to shoot center mass. Point and squeeze.

  3. Anonymous 1 year ago

    They did a great job. Moved from behind counter maybe a little too soon. Didn’t seem to just fire shots seemed composed enough to not shoot when robber was wrestling. Overall the bad get kept falling towards the end and they seemed to get away so isn’t that the whole point. Staying alive.

  4. George 1 year ago

    Practice, practice, practice. It’s like any other tool. If you never use a hammer you will miss the nail more often than not.

  5. Budman 1 year ago
    Member Since: 12/20/17

    Just looking quickly the firearms they were using seemed to be possibly a low caliber also.. I know this isn’t always the game ending rule to a gunfight either but I’d be surprised if they were 9mm most likely .380. but was that known ?

  6. Budman 1 year ago
    Member Since: 12/20/17

    I agree though they did a very good job of following through!

  7. Bob 1 year ago
    Member Since: 03/21/18

    Daughter is really lucky it was a small caliber handgun. When she shot the perp at close distance, the mother is directly behind the bad guy. A large caliber or higher velocity round would have possibly hit them both. Damian – absolutely agree, this is why you need defense in depth – gun, hand to hand, run, etc.

    • Firewagon 1 year ago
      Member Since: 01/07/18

      Yep, both ladies’ guns looked nothing like a .500 S&W ;)

  8. Elwood M. Porter II 1 year ago
    Member Since: 06/15/17

    That’s why I prefer a caliber with stopping power, like a .45. Frequently people tout the 9mm, and salesman on Saturday told me ballistic test indicate knock down force of 9mm is close to .45. I’ve seen those charts too. I still prefer a greater caliber like .45.

    • Firewagon 1 year ago
      Member Since: 01/07/18

      Think it was Jeff Cooper that opined that ANY caliber is fine, as long as the first number is a 4! ‘Course, bak in ole Jeff’s day BIGGER was always better, because the bullets were marginal.

    • Tom 1 year ago

      Elwood, “Knockdown power” or “Stopping power” is a myth. There’s no such thing. The MOST important aspect is 1) Bullet placement 2) What can you shoot with to maximize bullet placement? 3) Tissue damage and 4) Bullet placement. There’s a good reason why the FBI AND the U.S. Army now use the 9mm vs. the .45. More people can be trained to shoot considerably more accurately with the 9mm vs. the .45 and, the 9mm round used today is much more advanced than the 9mm round of a few years ago. There is much more tissue destruction caused by the newer round.

      There are numerous articles out there dispelling the myth of “Knockdown/Stopping Power”. Here is just one of them:
      https://www.buckmasters.com/Magazines/GunHunter/Articles/ID/3222/The-Knockdown-Power-Myth

      • theselfdefenseco Author
        theselfdefenseco 1 year ago
        Member Since: 10/10/18

        BINGO TOM!!! That’s what I was waiting for…great post.

      • Jim 1 year ago
        Member Since: 10/10/18

        Well said. I like a 9mm. If you can’t hit your target properly with the right kind of bullet, having a bigger gun ain’t going to solve the problem for you. Properly done, the attacker would have been shot center body mass and the head then use a knife to sever the carotid artery. By the time the cops get there, he’d be field dressed. And for those who take everything literal, the part after the use of the gun is just for fun thinking how things would be in a more advanced society.

  9. Lorne Curl 1 year ago
    Member Since: 05/31/17

    Thank you for this commentary. In all my classes I STRESS that a gun does not drop an assailant, as you point out here in this video. And thank you again for making the connection that YOU are the weapon. The gun is a tool that may or may not be available and for many different reasons as shown in this video, in the same event! I was very concerned about one shot the daughter made that seemed ill advised when Mom was in the firing area, but we are not to judge after the fact. These ladies kept their wits about them and worked together to fend off an attacker. Well done.

  10. DAVE JAENEN 1 year ago
    Member Since: 03/23/17

    the same goes for a punch how many punches does it take to knock someone out? Whether the shots were close range or from 10 yards the impact is basically the same, it did not stop the attack and it ended up in a wrestling match. this attacker may even of had some drugs in his system that would not allow him to feel any pain, i agree what ifs. Bottom line the gun did not achieve the immediate affect everyone thinks it has, and you better have more things to fall back on and that is the only time i want to see what ifs. What if it doesn’t work, what do you do next and what if that doesn’t work and so on. Damian as always another great opportunity for people to understand life doesn’t always have clean edges, fights are messy no one wins, we just try to survive.

  11. Anthony Clark 1 year ago
    Member Since: 01/20/19

    It also depends on the perpetrator some have more fight in them some get shot and stop some especially if he’s trained he’s taught that bullets aren’t deathrays so other bad guys just keep fighting until a central nervous system shot is delivered I think back to infamous gunfight in1986 in miami where 2 heavily armed bank robbers went up against the F.b.i. and half of the agents were swat trained it turned out that the 2 bad guys were ex army rangers

  12. Anthony Clark 1 year ago
    Member Since: 01/20/19

    It also depends on the perpetrator some have more fight in them some get shot and stop some especially if he’s trained he’s taught that bullets aren’t deathrays so other bad guys just keep fighting until a central nervous system shot is delivered I think back to infamous gunfight in1986 in miami where 2 heavily armed bank robbers went up against the F.b.i. and half of the agents were swat trained it turned out that the 2 bad guys were ex army rangers Anthony Clark founder strykeforce close quarters combat systems.

    • Firewagon 1 year ago
      Member Since: 01/07/18

      Yesser, most interesting stat coming out of that was, one of the very FIRST shots fired from the FBI was a 9mm round. It went through the driver’s left arm, entered his chest cavity and stopped just short of his heart! Since his partner was all but out of the fight already, that one round could have prevented the FBI deaths, with just another inch of penetration! The driver, Platt, was the primary executioner after being shot, not just the first time (that cudda ended the shootout), but several times thereafter. He killed both Grogan and Dove of the FBI. These two “killers” were not drugged up at the time, just “dedicated.”

      One of my Marine Master Sergeants, when asked what his hardest task was in getting Marines ready for combat, said it was getting them to understand how surprised/concerned they would be, after having shot some enemy with their rifle, and not only seeing them NOT fall, but continue advancing and SHOOTING at them.

      • theselfdefenseco Author
        theselfdefenseco 1 year ago
        Member Since: 10/10/18

        People who don’t really know, don’t believe it. This was my first biggest issue with martial arts…every time you were hit, shot or stabbed once the fight was presumed over.

        Then you see guys working the door SHOCKED when the guy keeps rolling.

        They all want a magic button – sure, there is…sometimes you just need to press it a shitload of times.

        • Firewagon 1 year ago
          Member Since: 01/07/18

          Exactly so. Was not that much of a fan of “Iron Mike” Tyson; however, he did say one intelligent thing: “Everyone has a plan, right up until you get punched in the mouth.”

  13. Peter E. Schultz 1 year ago
    Member Since: 12/29/15

    Another clear example of no-rules reality. Guns, cars, missiles, bare hands – there are NO magic solutions in a real fight. None. What this video teaches me is (1) run away FAST, or (2) destroy the villain FAST. Too much time in the middle of a fight, watching and waiting for results, is deadly. SDTS nails it – again. Thanks, Damian.

  14. Gary Pales 1 year ago

    Nothing less than a 357 mag. fir a revolver or a 40 cal, and 45 cal for pers. defense. Just my opinion of course.

  15. Jim 1 year ago
    Member Since: 10/10/18

    Damian is right. You need lots of tools in your tool bag. Guns won’t always do it, nor will a knife, or even a blunt instrument. Use the weapons first if you have one, but you got to know how to use your body as a weapon. It’s always with you. From all I’ve seen his self-defense system is the best. No bullshit, just git ‘er done.

  16. Mark 1 year ago

    I agree with the need for additional self-defense training. However, the mother acted naively letting the assailant walk in front of her unchallenged (when she could’ve shot him) allowing him to get ahold of her.

  17. Wayne 1 year ago
    Member Since: 09/20/17

    Thank Goodness these ladies survived the attack, it looked like it could have gone the other way.. Biggest problem to me: Both shooters when given opportunity should have emptied guns into assailant. Might have been a legal problem later… but assailant incapacitated or dead. No further threat to ladies.

    IF YOU PULL YOUR WEAPON, YOU INTEND TO KILL. DO NOT PULL YOUR WEAPON UNLESS YOU INTEND TO KILL. DO NOT PULL UNLESS YOU ARE THREATENED WITH LIFE THREATENING FORCE. DO NOT QUIT SHOOTING UNTIL ASSAILANT IS EITHER TOTALLY INCAPACTATED OR DEAD. D

    • Doc 1 year ago
      Member Since: 06/28/16

      Technicality, you shoot to stop the attack. If he dies, so be it. The law does not give us the right to take the life.

  18. Wayne 1 year ago
    Member Since: 09/20/17

    Thank Goodness these ladies survived the attack, it looked like it could have gone the other way.. Biggest problem to me: Both shooters when given opportunity should have emptied guns into assailant. Might have been a legal problem later… but assailant incapacitated or dead. No further threat to ladies.

    IF YOU PULL YOUR WEAPON, YOU INTEND TO KILL. DO NOT PULL YOUR WEAPON UNLESS YOU INTEND TO KILL. DO NOT PULL UNLESS YOU ARE THREATENED WITH LIFE THREATENING FORCE. DO NOT QUIT SHOOTING UNTIL ASSAILANT IS EITHER TOTALLY INCAPACTATED OR DEAD.

  19. Sandy 1 year ago
    Member Since: 04/17/16

    I looked for an update on what happened afterwards. The attacker drove himself to a hospital, was put in a medically induced coma and is expected to survive. Police believe he is the perpetrator in numerous armed robberies. He was shot numerous times and was still able to drive?! The mother suffered a gash to her head which required numerous staples. Could have been worse but the mother had somehow emptied the gun when she and the attacker were fighting over it. GREAT GOING LADIES, YOU ARE HEROES TO STOP THAT ATTACKER.

  20. Andrew 1 year ago

    Always use hollowpoints. Especially with smaller caliber firearms like .380 or 9mm. The expansion of the bullet would have caused more damage to this creep and he probably would have gone down faster. Shot placement is a big factor and the hollowpoints help compensate for poor shot placement.

  21. Nancy 1 year ago

    Honestly, I am amazed at the amount of times the ladies turned their backs on the assailant. Yes, ‘shot-placement’ is a huge factor in dropping an attacker, and under the stress of trying to protect yourself and others, it’s doubtful that good aiming factors in. In my county, if a deputy has the need to draw and shoot, and actually drops the attacker, a review had BETTER find two rounds minimum were fired. One round, even from a Glock 45 is not a guarantee, nor is actually hitting the target with only one round. My (civilian) training calls for 2 to the body and one to the head.. in that order…. if you are shooting, your intentions are to kill.

    • Mike Potter 8 months ago

      “My (civilian) training calls for 2 to the body and one to the head.. in that order…. if you are shooting, your intentions are to kill.”

      Please do not say my intentions were to KILL. It might be the deciding factor that places your case before a grand jury rather than dismissed.

      And get some training that includes how to practice and what to say so witnesses can hear it.

  22. JWRockets 1 year ago

    The bottles on the counter could have been used as blunt instruments after the revolver was empty. Glad he didn’t think of it either.

    • Anonymous 1 year ago

      USE A BIGGER CALIBER!!!!!! .45 would have changed everything!

    • Orlando 1 year ago
      Member Since: 09/08/15

      USE A BIGGER CALIBER!!!!!! .45 would have changed everything!

      • Author
        Damian Ross 1 year ago
        Member Since: 10/10/18

        Not really. There’s a reason law enforcement went back to 9mm.

  23. MarioUSMC 12 months ago
    Member Since: 01/05/18

    Hey guys, do you think Hydra-Shoks would’ve ended the threat?

    • theselfdefenseco Author
      theselfdefenseco 12 months ago
      Member Since: 10/10/18

      Maybe- but illegal to own in a lot of states.

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