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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGyEdW4Bgns
The video courtesy of [Ed Kane].
Thoughts – at 8 seconds when this guy doesn’t comply, the officer behind him should have just blasted him with the Taser or the old HYC. Right when the cop told him to put down the cigarette and he didn’t you need to take the smoke out of his mouth and put him on the ground.
Also, one guy gives the commands – the others enforce them.
Here’s the thing, people are like dogs, they’re going to take that inch if you give them an inch. Then they’re going to try to take another one.
Love the guy’s yell though.
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Ha! We just watched this in briefing the other day. Yeah… he screams like a little girl.
You make a couple of excellent points.
First, according to the FBI, the absolute primary indicator that a suspect intends to fight (other than just flat out attacking, of course) is failure to comply with verbal commands. The theory being that if they’re not going to listen and follow directions then they have no intention of going peacefully anyway.
Two, they waited WAY to long to deal with this and it could have gotten ugly in a hurry. I think it’s safe to assume that at this point no one has patted dude down for weapons. When he turned his back on them and started toward the street, he could have “spun and gunned” and it would have been a mess. In defensive tactics I teach all my students that if they have not resolved a situation within 15 seconds or less, their use of force is not high enough. In this case, he was clearly resisting so, as you pointed out, he should have been shut down in around eight.
I hate to say it, but in today’s age of cell phone videos and law suits, we have become much too afraid of dealing with a confrontation before it becomes dangerous. But, as the saying goes, I’d rather be tried by twelve than carried by six, so I’m going to do what it takes to keep myself and my partners safe and let the chips fall where they may. As Rory Miller once said, “They’ll eventually let you out of jail, but a coffin is forever!”
Stay safe, guys!
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Let’s put use of force in perspective.
Even the guys who beat the hell out of Rodney King got acquitted.
So let’s let’s make that the benchmark and take it down a few notches from there.
Imagine if the offer behind him just gave him an edge of hand on the neck, hand yoke may bury his face in the wall, but you can still get away from it.
The problem is the guys in this video are not exactly physical specimens and the subject had no reason to respect them.
Lack of physical presence + lack of enforcing even the smallest request = resistance.
Just put him down, “bad dog”.
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@Damian Ross said:
The problem is the guys in this video are not exactly physical specimens and the subject had no reason to respect them.
Lack of physical presence + lack of enforcing even the smallest request = resistance.
Just put him down, “bad dog”.Also, at least from my perspective, there are two major problems with their verbal tactics.
1) Only one person should be giving direction. True or not, this guy’s attorney will argue that so many people were yelling at him that his client was simply “confused” (I speak from experience here.)
2) I hate to throw fellow officers under the bus, but you can clearly hear the fear in most of their voices. This was a BIG dude and, as you point out, they are not exactly a bunch of athletes. There is no doubt that they really didn’t want to have to go hands on with this guy… the problem is, he knew it, too!
The key is letting them know right from the start who is in control (I’ll give you a hint… it ain’t them!) I remember a suspect who kept putting his hands in his pockets. I asked him if he liked baseball. He was confused and asked why. I said, “Cuz I’ve already warned you twice. Three strikes and you’re out.” He chose not to listen. A hard Hand Yoke and handcuffs let him know where I stood. Regardless of how scared you may be on the inside, as the old deodorant commercial said, “Never let ’em see you sweat.”
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Those officers kinda remind me of some sheriffs around here except the ones in the video were about 75 lbs lighter. Our sheriffs here are way over weight and have no command presence. Now our city cops are pretty good. A good friend of mine former EOD in the army and not scared of anything, he has command presence. These guys I the vid took way to long and did not had any authority in their voice. In security I learned that the hard way while atempting to detain a perp he had a good 50 lbs on me and I was nervous and he could tell, it finally ended well but I had to crack him in his knees to get him to go down. Anyway these guys just needed to act quicker and put some damn authority in their voice.
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@James Goolsby said:
1) Only one person should be giving direction. True or not, this guy’s attorney will argue that so many people were yelling at him that his client was simply “confused” (I speak from experience here.)”ABSOLUTELY!!! One person directs traffic the others enforce it. Take the position of advantage, line up your shot and take it.
The chatter in the background is only confusing and let’s the sub know you’re nervous. Get ready to mobilize – if you’re talking you’re not going to engage. Under stress your mind becomes hyper focused.
That’s why you have one officer commanding and asking the questions. As soon as that guy doesn’t comply to ANYTHING – BAD DOG – put him down a bit.
Each little step is a test. He’s pushing the boundaries.
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