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Tagged: active shooter, Crime, michigan verdict
- This topic has 15 replies, 4 voices, and was last updated 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Damian (Instructor).
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February 7, 2024 at 8:15 am #187298Damian (Instructor)Keymaster
A jury yesterday found a Michigan mother guilty of four counts of involuntary manslaughter in connection with her son’s 2021 mass shooting at Oxford High School that killed four students and injured seven other people. She faces a maximum penalty of 15 years in prison for each count; her sentencing is scheduled for April 9.
Jennifer Crumbley, 45, is believed to be the first parent to be held criminally responsible for a mass attack committed by their child. To carry out the Nov. 30, 2021, attack, her then-15-year-old son used a 9 mm semi-automatic handgun his father bought him for Christmas four days before (see timeline). Her son, now 17, pleaded guilty as an adult to all 24 charges in 2022, including murder and terrorism, and was sentenced last year to life in prison without parole.
The shooter’s father, 57-year-old James, will take the stand next month in a separate trial over involuntary manslaughter charges.
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February 7, 2024 at 8:22 am #187299Damian (Instructor)Keymaster
As a responsible gun owner, there has to come a point where you need to take responsibility for who has access to your weapons. It appears in the case the parents granted full access to the weapons and I believe the father gave the son a 9mm for his 15th birthday. IDK about MI, but anyone under 18 can’t own a handgun.
Add to that, this kid was CLEARLY troubled and dealing with mental illness. As parents you’re either IGNORING this fact or not paying attention to it. The parents should be held accountable.
But…what will this decision trigger…?
What if a legally locked and secured firearm was STOLEN from your home and used in the commission of a crime?
Are you partially responsible for the crime?
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February 23, 2024 at 4:11 pm #187591Joshua Caywood (Instructor)Participant
This is a slippery slope. At what point is one person held accountable for another persons actions? What if it wasn’t a gun but a knife? What about a hammer? Obviously a gun can cause more harm faster than a knife or gun, but that is why it’s a slippery slope. Germany has made it illegal to carry ANY knife, even one of those dinky Swiss Army knives, and has politicians screaming that a chef knife is too dangerous for anyone to have IN THEIR HOMES because they can be used as a weapon. In that kind of environment, anyone takes your kitchen knife and kills someone and YOU are also held accountable just for owning one…
However, as a parent it is your responsibility to watch over your children, that includes properly securing firearms. But, does that equal to involuntary manslaughter? Your underage kid is “borrowing your car” and hits someone because they were texting while driving. Are the parents now facing involuntary manslaughter charges too?
I have really mixed feelings on this.
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February 23, 2024 at 4:38 pm #187595Magnus Loeffler (Instructor)Participant
I agree with the statements made here. Taking measures to ensure an underage kid doesn’t have immediate access to firearms should be the parent’s responsibility.
I just have a small correction to make:
In Germany it’s legal to carry knives (so far, government is currently cracking down on all things weapons…), albeit with restrictions primarily based on the length and type of the knife. Swiss Army knives are fine with the possible exception of so called “weapon free areas”, but I do not know for sure.The country that comes closest to the regulations and political demands Joshua mentioned would be Britain to my knowledge. Especially around the London area, police cracks down on every type of knife carried including box cutters of handymen on the job. I think I also remember the proposal of a politician to install mandatory tracking devices in the handles of all chefs knives for better prosecution of knife crimes. Make of that what you will.
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February 23, 2024 at 5:01 pm #187596Joshua Caywood (Instructor)Participant
I appreciate the clarification on Germany. A German buddy of mine was visiting this summer, he must have been exaggerating, or talking about the weapon-free zones that have already been established. It probably got lost in translation lol.
“In Germany, there is a law (Weapons Act) that prohibits the carrying of a knife with a blade length of 12 cm. “Fixed knives with a blade length of more than 12 centimetres, any knives classified as cutting and thrusting weapons and folding knives that can be unfolded with one hand may not be carried in public.” -Google
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February 26, 2024 at 7:37 am #187627Damian (Instructor)Keymaster
Weapon regulations have NEVER, EVER stopped bad guys from using them. Besides disarming law abiding citizens…I guess the only thing these laws do is remove the remote possibility of criminals ability to access weapons from citizens. It’s crazy.
If you’re stuck, you’re stuck…I’m moving to a much friendlier state in a few years…
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February 26, 2024 at 11:42 am #187638Joshua Caywood (Instructor)Participant
You’re more than welcome to come join me in Texas.
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February 26, 2024 at 11:45 am #187639Damian (Instructor)Keymaster
How far is the beach?
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February 26, 2024 at 11:55 am #187640Joshua Caywood (Instructor)Participant
Depends on if you live on the coast. I’m about 3.5-4hrs, but Texas itself has a huge coast line. As much as having you as my neighbor would make for great training lol, Texas is huge 😎.
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February 26, 2024 at 11:58 am #187641Damian (Instructor)Keymaster
Yeah…I know about the TX Coast…Lotta rigs…
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February 26, 2024 at 12:05 pm #187642Joshua Caywood (Instructor)Participant
Well if you come house hunting this way, I got an extra room you can base out of.
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February 26, 2024 at 12:07 pm #187643Damian (Instructor)Keymaster
Roger that!!!!
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March 24, 2024 at 5:07 am #188183Garry PickelParticipant
There is different state laws here for knives and length. The same with swords.
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March 24, 2024 at 5:25 pm #188198Damian (Instructor)Keymaster
@Garry it varies with each jurisdiction. But it’s all confusing. Last I checked in NJ where I live you can carry an utility knife for work. But not self defense. However, you’re allowed to use a knife in self defense – you just can’t carry on FOR self defense.
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March 25, 2024 at 1:46 pm #188211Garry PickelParticipant
I try to carry a multi tool, like an emergency tool in the car with a knife and seat belt cutter so it is a grey area. That way I have a knife and the safety tool that is arm’s reach, the survival gear with the bigger knives is kept in a locker I have to reach for behind the seat which can be locked. I know with clubs etc I carry non metal knifes and stab sticks that won’t go off in metal detectors and can be concealed
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March 25, 2024 at 2:27 pm #188213Damian (Instructor)Keymaster
Perfect.
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