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Hi All,
about these 2 videos:A) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbBHlxrhex4
B) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnhbp3ESlBg
How would you deflect the gun and attack?
For istance, in video A, would you deflect the free hand that pushes you or jam the hand with the gun and then, as usual, attack?
In video B, the armed hand is constantly moving and the othre hand is disturbing/slappning the face; is just attack the assailant fine?
PS: just ignore the defenders’ fancy manouvers, just focus on the armed attackers.
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Aldo,
Your instinct is correct on this one. In an armed situation like this, you must remember that the thing that is going to hurt you the most is the end of that barrel (or, technically, what is about to come out of it!)
So, in video A, you would certainly jam the gun first; ignore the push for now (as Damian points out in MOD 5, you can’t get something without giving up a little of something else.)
Same thing in video B. You are right that you should “attack the assailant”, but again you have to consider where the greatest danger is and contend with that first. Secure the weapon and then beat the hell out the guy.
Damian explains all of this extremely well in the weapons defense module, so review those and I think you’ll really see what I mean. Also, you should definitely read GRHutchings latest post about the differences between Krav Maga and SDTS; it’s very enlightening. As you will read, the real question is: what did you do to find yourself in either one of those scenarios above in the first place?
Stay safe.
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@James Goolsby said:
Aldo,
Your instinct is correct on this one. In an armed situation like this, you must remember that the thing that is going to hurt you the most is the end of that barrel (or, technically, what is about to come out of it!)
So, in video A, you would certainly jam the gun first; ignore the push for now (as Damian points out in MOD 5, you can’t get something without giving up a little of something else.)
Same thing in video B. You are right that you should “attack the assailant”, but again you have to consider where the greatest danger is and contend with that first. Secure the weapon and then beat the hell out the guy.
Damian explains all of this extremely well in the weapons defense module, so review those and I think you’ll really see what I mean. Also, you should definitely read GRHutchings latest post about the differences between Krav Maga and SDTS; it’s very enlightening. As you will read, the real question is: what did you do to find yourself in either one of those scenarios above in the first place?
Stay safe.James, I agree on some of your good points, regarding to secure the weapon in both video A and B, but:
Video A: the gun is held close to hip’s attacker and his left hand is pushing (or could be a grab). Very difficult to go and jamming the armed hand. Plausible to make him spin to the right by tiger-clawing his right shoulder as in module 4 – shoulder stop as defense from wrist/arm/collar/neck grab (and Col. Applegate-like method as illustrated in “Kill or get Killed”, Disarming when weapon is concealed, pag. 237 ca.) or deflect his left (pushing) arm to his right side; both solutions conclude with an attack at his neck’s left side with EoHs or whatever.
Video B: the attacker is constantly moving the armed hand (the attack made at 0:08): to jam it is even more difficult than before! One could think that timing is the best option, just wait until the gun is at my reach, then deflect/jam it and attack. But timing is just an option and if you wait, it could be too late to act.
So, again, just *immediately* attacking the man without taking care of the weapon could be the best option, as far as Damian says in mod 8 :”the gun is alive, the gun is alive…. whatever, he has just as much as chances to shoot himself while I’m beating him than shooting me”.I just posted to know if my tactical thinking is the same of other SDTS members here, or I am wrong about anything. Those 2 cases were not proposed by our Boss in mod 8 (well, he couldn’t think to 10000 cases), so my questions.
About GRHutchings’ post on KM, I read it and I will reply directly there; just that is strictly concerning about the scenario-matter:
Krav scenario: see video A in my first post
and Real scenario:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=463678610418494&set=vb.368426903276999&type=2&theaterThe same!
Your question: “what did you do to find yourself in either one of those scenarios above in the first place?” Well, I could be in a jewelry store to buy a bracelet for my spouse, or in pawn shop to to pawn something to pay off debts, or in a wal-mart for a packet of chewing gum.
A scenario is a scenario: “Avoidance”/”Awareness” and “sh*t happens”/”Murphy’s law” are two sides on the same medal, unfortunately.
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Aldo,
You’re right, and perhaps I didn’t explain myself good enough… shit can and does happen. But I submit that if you maintain awareness you can avoid or at least prepare for 99% of it.
To use you examples, I could be in a jewelry store, a pawn shop, or in a wal-mart; it makes no difference to me. First of all, in a smaller setting like a jewelry store, I am aware of every single person that comes in and out of that place while I am present. And I make mental notes on what I see. Of course, in a larger setting such as a wal-mart, perhaps this is not possible, but I am certainly aware of anyone in my general vicinity. Also, regardless of where I am, I always plan multiple escape routes. If I am in a restaurant, for instance, I will request to sit near an exit, and I will sit with my back to the wall so I can focus on what’s in front of me. There are many more things, but this gives you an idea.
Does all of this mean I am out of the woods and don’t need to practice and prepare for the 1% when it does hit the fan? Of course not. That is why we have SDTS and, if you choose, Krav Maga, as well as other styles. But I think the point that I (and George) were making is that it shouldn’t get that far if you can at all help it. In order to get that close to you with a gun or knife as in the example videos you show, the bad guy has to, well, get that close. The point we are making is that you should be well aware that someone is within that zone before it comes to that. Does that mean every person who gets that close is going to put a knife to your throat. No. I can think of a ton of scenarios where they might; like at a concert or game, for example. But that doesn’t mean that you’re not aware that they’re there. The whole point is to keep your head on a swivel and be prepared mentally for what might occur.
I hope that explains it a little better.
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10-4 James, as I also replied to George on KM topic, I agree 100% that Pre-Conflict management and being on yellow code is saving our a** the most of the times.
If you go there and read our exchange of msgs, you will read that he also agrees on the fact that mod 4,5 and 8 (and this is the mod 8 section) are based on developing fast reaction to sudden attacks (when things goes wrong, that 1% that you’re talking about).
So, since this is mod 8 section, and in mod 8 you study defenses from various gun/knife/club attacks, why not integrate the Damian’s proposals with other scenarios coming from KM or whatever? Scenario training is fine to train to whatever angle, situation, confined space gun/knife/club attacks. The important is to use SDTS methodology to react, and this means neither waiting to be attacked, nor fancy manouvers to defend. Just to train honestly that small part of situations where things went wrong.
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A couple of words from Damian would be appreciated! Thanks in advace boss!
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=463678610418494&set=vb.368426903276999&type=2&theater
Not Damian, but I watched the spanish facebook video you posted and had these thoughts. Assuming one is aware of his surroundings:
1) If one were in a shady part of town, one should have been prepared with a weapon and be ready to use it. A 2 oz canister of pepper spray can be held in the hand without drawing much suspicion, whether you’re walking or standing on the street. This also assumes you don’t look like a criminal. Threat presents itself, you spray them in the eyes to at least take their vision. Now you choose to either run or fight depending on if he closes on you.
2) In the beginning, the gun is pointed at the ground. If you can hit hard, and hit first, you’ll probably be OK. If you’re not good at empty hand striking, than of course the odds are against you.
3) Even when this guy chose to WAIT, he still could have cleared the gun by twisting his body and using the forearm parry. Granted, the closer you let someone get to you without attacking first, the more factors such as size, speed, and strength will play a role.
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Thanks Wang!
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